LOL. The reason? Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand. If you ever do find proof of that, though, I hope youll share it. This is why Warren's church would have fallen apart; because the church is devoid of Christ. Would a couple of paragraphs have been fair? 3. If you read some of my other posts you would know that I have a mom who died as a result of her alcoholism. The gravitational pull toward busyness in ministry is so great, but observing the Sabbath is something pastors need to start building into the rhythm of their lives. How about the The Pope. WOW!!!! I really didnt handle it well, and its part of that journey that resulted ultimately in me doing Replenish. I was always preoccupied. Thank you for your kind words and encouragement. (RNS) Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren on Sunday (June 6) announced the church will begin the official search for his successor, signaling he will retire after 40 years in his pulpit.. In short, Matthew 5:8 and this CR principle are not even tangentially related. When I got to Saddleback, the pace was insanely faster, and the demands were so much more. I know countless people whose lives have literally been saved through their involvement with CR. Discover how CareLeader.org can help you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care for struggling and hurting people in your church. Throughout the Bible, women have played a key role in fulfilling Gods plan. If anything, you didnt go far enough, but you were 100% correct. Deborah Netburn covers faith, spirituality and joy for the Los Angeles Times. They start acting as though they dont have limits. Saddleback also was the birthplace of Celebrate Recovery, a Christian 12-step inspired program to help people deal with their "hurts, hang-ups and habits." The program has been adopted by tens of. Judging a minister who has sacrificed so much to enrich peoples lives with the gospel of Christ is disturbing to me. So does verse 13 that gives the reason. Your argument that you got something from what he has written is not a valid one when the discussion is whether or not his teachings are rooted in Scripture. All that said, women can teach anyone in many circumstances, and I agree the Bible gives multiple examples of God using women for great things. Romans 14 is about not having disunity over disputable matters. (Dont count on the SBC to do anything, though, theyve silently been allowing female preaching for years.). Celebrate Recovery advises people to forgive themselves and forgive God. Pastors start sacrificing things that Jesus never asked them to sacrifice. Thanks for your concern about my ability to read the Bible and view it in context. Women can use avenues such as serving in church and political appointments to accomplish this charge. Thanks for leaving your thoughts. I am passionate about encouraging Christian women to grow in their faith, live godly lives, and discern truth from all the lies and noise of the world. What Christ is Warren suggesting people accept? Lance and his wife, Connie, have been married thirty-eight years and have two married children and four beautiful granddaughters. I find that it doesnt matter whether youre in a big church or a small church, a rural church or an urban church, you can burn out no matter what your situation. 1.) But it was a startling turn of events when the SBC . Face it, no one loves you as much as you do. His teachings and poor handling of Scripture are corrupting the gospel, assuring some people of a salvation they cannot have yet because they have not recognized their wickedness and need for salvation, and/or made believers who follow him unequipped to handle the Word because he doesnt consistently use it correctly. I think asking the why question puts pastors on a path to be more emotionally healthy. Then give them the resources and support they need. All we must do is repent and believe. Theres a button to push for that, and it will zip you over to a video of Rick Warren seemingly wrapping up a message. I ran across an article quoting Rick or John concerning the meditation part of CR stating that he recommended clearing the mind and repeating the words I am to get the mmm going. Your opinion can influence someone who possibly is thinking about attending church to the first time, and discouraging them. Im pondering your post, not pounding it. is loved by everyone, then I need to look closely for the problem. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. Thank you so much for commenting! Then why does Warren tell his readers to accept Jesus? Im going to skip over forgiving ourselves and look right to forgiving God. Apparently, Warren plucked it out of Job without thought of the true meaning of the text. That may sound cynical. Southern Baptists have always been more concerned about distributing life jackets to people who are drowning than straitjackets, he said. Usually, theyre way off base, and many end up in the trash because they are just personal insults directed at me. Have you run across that? Of course your theology probably believes that battle is futile because your sovereign uncaring god had already condemned all but those who believe as you to hell anyway. Baptism This is a good thing. Thanks for having an open mind and not assuming I am coming at things with bad intentions. They need to have a compelling, inspiring reason why. If there are 47,000 Southern Baptist churches and 20 years from now you only have 20,0000 men who want to be pastors, there are going to be some tough decisions to be made. Have it to yourself before God. Pastor Andy Wood and his wife, Stacie, outside Saddleback Church in Lake Forest. Influential Pastor Rick Warren has announced that after more than 40 years as the lead pastor of Saddleback Church in California, he will be soon stepping back from his current role with the church and has begun the process of searching for his successor. Last week the Southern Baptist Convention ousted Saddleback Church, one of its largest and highest-profile member churches, from its ranks. How can you get involved? Theres an obvious assumption the reader has no clue who Jesus is or why He is important. Id rather that than allow them to continue on with liberal and progressive practices while Christian leadership nods along like everything is all good. We have to make sure we stay connected to the gift and not make it all about the box. Yes, I agree with you. I marvel at your self righteous self proclaimed view that you are the only person in all Christianity that has the one true oath. I dont prop up a gospel no one can live up to. If you could just manage your environment better, you wouldnt burn out. I left the website knowing that I have a place to have purpose, and Rick Warren is peachy keen. If a whole post on the subject is wrong, then I wonder how much is acceptable to you. Now what on earth can someone have against Celebrate Recovery (CR)? I suggest you read my post on calling out false teachers. I know Im just a regular person and havent started my own female-ordaining mega-church, but maybe having access to Gods Word should have been a bit sooner? If you want to investigate this issue, Id start HERE. Thanks. God bless! Go to saddleback.com and click on the "Sign In/Sign Up" tab in the upper right corner of the home page. Simply put, Im a Bible-believing Christian woman. The way he delivers his lukewarm message doesnt resonate with you and thats fine, you have every right to go to a different church. 4. Im not the first or last Christian to address this topic. Here is the Associated Press:. Bill Hybels, senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, said that in ministry youve got to be able to discern the difference between good hard and destructive hard. Good hard is healthy sacrifice. Im rooting for him. Youre demanding silence from me with regard to a false teacher, but then you think its totally appropriate to call me names and make accusations because you dont like what I said. Today, the Southern Baptist Convention is increasingly homogeneous. That just breaks my heart. It is your opinion that you find the message to not be clear. For Rick to do what he did in Southern California required some different strategies and different ways of communicating, and that was unsettling to traditional hard-line Southern Baptists. His critics would have been delighted if he had failed. Why say that? Pastor Warren is a very public figure with a huge influence, and he falls under the mark and avoid category (Romans 16:17-18). And praise the Lord! - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/, 4 LifeWay Red Flags That Should Send You Running - The Set-Apart Walk, Why I Wont Apologize For Calling Out False Teachers - The Set-Apart Walk, https://www.christianpost.com/news/rick-warren-to-muslims-talk-is-cheap-let-s-work-together.html, Why Churches Are Becoming LGBTQ+ Allies - The Set-Apart Walk, Rick Warren And The Problem With Celebrity Pastors - The Set-Apart Walk, https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/christian-unity-is-not-what-you-think-it-is/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/catholicism-is-not-biblical-christianity/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-churches-are-becoming-lgbtq-allies/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/how-to-identify-a-bad-ladies-bible-teacher/, https://thesetapartwalk.com/rick-warren-and-the-problem-with-celebrity-pastors/, Christian Unity Is Not What You Think It Is - The Set-Apart Walk, Responding To Your Feedback: Part 1 - The Set-Apart Walk. Women need a biblically-minded womans voice in the mix of progressive nonsense. By the end of the 2030s, though, Saddleback likely will be just one of the hundreds of SBC churches ordaining women pastors. Yes, thats right. He is good (James 1:17), gracious (Psalm 145:17), holy (Isaiah 6:3), immutable (Psalm 33:11), loving (1 John 4:8), merciful (Titus 3:5), and just (Romans 1:32). You are a small petty jealous man. Of course, this purity of heart is only possible through repentance and belief in Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. No one can live up to the gospel. One exercise I do with pastors is called the Replenishment Cycle. I sincerely hope you see this as a fair question. People choose to reject Him, and our God serves perfect justice which is separation from Him in Hell. It really became an issue in the 1980s. Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. Certainly, it is missing in how Saddleback presents itself publicly. The church, led by founding pastor Rick Warren, made the announcement via Facebook, saying the best days are ahead of the congregation. We need to change how we see God, not ourselves. And what about unbelievers? I ran across your site while continuing my own research of CR. Instead, the couple shepherded the large church through the COVID-19 pandemic and a shutdown than would affect the church for about 14 months. There have been occasions throughout history where it happened. It seems like we will have to agree to disagree. What is happening now seems to me to be a great divorce from Baptist history and heritage, said Cole, who tweets his thoughts on the SBC under the handle @baptistblogger. I understand how overwhelming addiction is and how impossible it can feel to overcome. Why would they like it? My name is Julie. And we need to test everything: hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. We might agree on more than you think. Its not about salvation or the gospel or Jesus, its about admitting they are powerless, and asking God to help. (Im not kidding. Youre not a good Christian because you are mean. 3.) My prayer is that people turn back to solid Bible teaching in their local churches. Until then, keep quiet. I assure you Im not. Third, youve accused me of being prideful, self-righteous, and claim I think I am the only one who knows the Truth. We need to be alert (Acts 20:29-31). You are full of ugliness and pride. Its an addictions ministry Julie, do you want people to overcome addiction or not? If youre curious about who I am, you should read my testimony. Unlike all other gods, though, Jesus is real and rose from the grave 3 days later. I thought I would be all alone in my opinion of Warrens book, and I was partially correct. God bless! Whether or not individuals who are both employed by SBC agencies or serve as trustees of those entities and agencies seized upon the opportunity of Rick Warrens retirement to seek and pursue the removal of Saddleback from fellowship, I dont know. Although a valid right of yours to disagree with me, it doesnt mean Im not allowed to speak. After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. In other books, he refers to woman that held churches in their houses, such as Nympha in Colossians 4:15 and Chloe in 1 Corinthians 1:11. God made you a hammer, He made me a screw driver, He made Rick Warren a Saw. His church can have a wildly popular ministry. You made a good point. It sounds like Warren based his church on fundamental biblical principles, so what can I say? Kudos to you! Im Julie. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. Finally, you clearly think that I am picking apart someone while not seeing my own mistakes. Dwight McKissic, senior pastor of Cornerstone Baptist Church in Arlington, Texas, shared his displeasure on Twitter, writing that the decision to disfellowship Saddleback was not about Scripture or adherence to the Baptist Faith and Message. I understand.) Its not becoming of a lady who is set apart. Pissing on everybody else doesnt make your walk look any better, love. I dont give my churchs name out because it feels like it crosses a personal line. The American Church is an embarrassment as it strays away from the Lord. A little Joseph Smith, maybe. A few years ago it was Calvinism. My family has a history of alcoholism, and I watched my mom slowly kill herself through her addiction. I would appreciate any input. Can you imagine a minister who refused to benefit financially from the sales of his Purpose Driven Life book, a minister who does reverse tithing, giving 90% of his income and keeping 10%? To create an account for the Saddleback website, you just need an email address. I left the website knowing that I have a place to have purpose, and Rick Warren is peachy keen. We need to call out these misleading ministries and lead people to truth before they hear, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:23). CR has twelve steps like AA, but now each step has a tacked-on Bible verse. CR gives the impression that Jesus is a step toward the goal of recovery rather than being of the utmost importance. I certainly hope that you take your own advice, as well. Fourth, you said people have many approaches to teaching Gods Word. Its beautiful, and Rick Warren often leaves this out a lot. GriefShare is a powerful, Christ-centered grief recovery program. The Bible encourages all Christians both male and female to follow the commands of God in telling others about Him. I write because I have seen and heard so much false teaching that women take in like candy over the years. Because like a lot of pastors, I grew up with an always be available mentality, without many boundaries or limits. You sound judgmental, and judge not lest ye be judged. 2.) Catholicism: https://thesetapartwalk.com/catholicism-is-not-biblical-christianity/ Otherwise, what is it that we believe? First, pastors have to connect the what to the why. (Romans 14:1,22). Less than a month after the Los Angeles-based megachurch turned away from biblical complementarianism, senior pastor Rick Warren announced that he is resigning from his position after over 40 years. Give people a simple, easy, low-cost opportunity to get involved. The vote by the convention's Executive Committee culminates growing tension between the nation's largest Protestant denomination . Know Ephesians 4. You then went on to tell me what kind of posts I should be posting instead and how to correct my post to make it more palpable to you. He is a legitimate celebrity. As seen in The Purpose Driven Life, CR uses eisegesis to unite these eight principles with Scripture. Follow any of the links below to read biblical responses to you queries. Im definitely not straining gnats by pointing out that a world famous pastor gives a weak gospel or maybe even none at all. Saddleback ordained three women on May 6, 2021. They have no idea that Warren promotes an ecumenical union with other religions in the world. Are we going to start kicking out churches who have pastors who are intemperate? Theres also pressure for a pastor to be a strong organizational leader, be great with numbers, communicate effectively, and counsel people with problems. You are not phased by negativity and your focus is on scripture which I love. A church can be large, successful, and led by a world famous pastor and not be the ideal. And he always helps! Did you read the post or just the title? Instead you should feel bad for Warren. 1.) So, that means that I dont add or take from Gods Word, and I see the Bible as the absolute Word of God which is our Authority. Saddleback Church has been at the head of Christian news headlines in the last several weeks. It could be just a place that entertains and tickles peoples ears. Essentially, the gospel isnt present. I havent contacted the SBC because I am no longer a Southern Baptist, so I would not be taken seriously as an outsider. Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis. Ill have pastors write down the five things that put life in their tank and how often they ideally need them. Its amazing how that inability to only think of ourselves can be changed with the power of salvation. The Saddleback Church pastor developed the popular Christ-centered 12-step program for "hurts, habits, and hang-ups." Jump directly to the Content Who We Are None of the churches gave a clear gospel presentation. He is a public figure who many people look to for spiritual guidance. Youre describing issues common to many mega churches, and you might consider that youll see these people in Heaven one day. A full body orgasm at the L.A. Phil? The pastor doesnt have all the gifts. I always thought burnout was about all the externals around you. You write well, and you are obviously passionate about your faith.) You will also see the four steps a new believer should take. Or you can do this, and then your church will explode in size because your pastor is a self-help guru, not a faithful preacher of the Word of God. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. Just WOW!!! I do think in many cases, and this is just my opinion, that God is working in spite of the megachurch to accomplish His will. Know what I mean? Rather, I am asking people to reconsider Rick Warren and Saddleback. Get a Bible There it is! Just pray for all the liberals daking a belief in the Bible n Jesus Christ. I was concerned with the beliefs section of the site, but Saddleback presents itself as quite doctrinally sound. The book makes no mention of sin, the need for a Savior, Jesus life, His death at the cross, or the empty tomb. Ignorant comments are nothing compared to that. (RNS) Leaders at Rick Warren's Saddleback Church say a preliminary investigation has cleared Andy Wood, Warren's recently announced successor, of allegations made by a former . Also, my post is not snide or prideful. I also must mention that your ability to maintain your poise when being attacked was nothing short of impressive and showed true Christian character. On June 2, Saddleback announced Wood as Warren's successor after Warren's more than four decades of service as the church's lead pastor. It was a very exciting time and an insanely crazy time. This demonstrates a complete ignorance of who God is. Im actually a little excited about Saddleback ordaining women because this gives the SBC no choice but to address female preaching. What drives you to write and answer those above? You dont know hopeless until youve been that hopeless. Meanwhile, Warrens decision to support female pastors, misuse Scripture in His book and CR, and preach the salvation of Christ without first teaching on sin and Hell is not a mistake. Ive seen people completely renewed after salvation. There is no such thing as a coincidence in Southern Baptist confession of faith. Third, you told me that I might have stopped people from finding God. Just because you like something doesnt make it good, accurate, or biblical. I was definitely on a path to burnout. On Tuesday (Feb. 21), Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, California, was "deemed not to be in friendly cooperation" with the SBC for having Stacie Woods wife of newly appointed senior pastor. Be hypervigilant. So, how has the church emphasis failed the gospel? Ive written posts concerning you questions. My issue with Saddleback Church has nothing to do with nonessential issues. And women have been created as suitable helpers to men (Genesis 2:18), not the other way around. If hes the one whos always doing the work of the ministry, he will become the bottleneck of the church. So, once again, we see a poorly given gospel message with more focus on Saddlebacks product than anything else. Paul was crucified for sticking to the Faith. I didnt have much time for family, and I remember sometimes my wife and I would discuss how I was never there. Then, one day my wife said, Theres always a reason or a season why you cant be who youre supposed to be. I had to get to the place where I really owned my spiritual health. Christians ought to start with the Bible, not tack it onto what they already believe. Rick Warren and his wife started Saddleback with a vision to plant a church for people who didnt like church. I could tell you oodles about the church history because Saddleback loves itself some Saddleback. We are all different and take many approaches on teaching Gods word; thats whats most important. (https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/) If you dont want to read my take on it because Im obviously not your cup of tea, then Google it. There are many verses that teach caution, 1 John 4:1; 2 John 1: 7-11; Romans 16:17; and 1 Timothy 6: 3-5 to name a few. 1 John 4:1 teaches that we are to be diligent in determining if the teaching is from God or not. A couple of examples include Luke 11:37-54 (the woes) and Luke 13:14-17 (calling out hypocrites). If you believe that women can and/or should be pastors, I ask you to flip your method of interpreting the Word. People dont have time to spend four Tuesday nights training for a volunteer position. And what the convention is now being forced to answer is whether or not we will pass out straitjackets to our churches rather than life jackets to the communities around us in need of hope.. Faithful, Obedient, and Counter-Cultural Christian Living. Second, you think Im jealous of Rick Warren. Freeimages.com. As part of its release, we decided to turn it into a campaign in our church and around the country. 3 Ways to Maintain Sanity in Ministry by Dr. Jeff Forrey. The Bible. Our seminary enrollment is down. Perhaps it will be something else later on.. Without all that information, it certainly is not the Jesus of the Bible. (* I have read through the leader information when previously considering starting CR in a previous church.). Church membership is suggested but not insisted upon. Warrens church identifies as Southern Baptist, and they are out of step with Southern Baptist beliefs in ordaining women. The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. For example, God didnt condemn anyone to Hell. 3. I think its part of acknowledging our limits; God gives us permission to stop, even though theres still more that could be done. My job as the pastor of discipleship was to lead the campaign for Saddleback. For starters, in a previous post I wrote called Your Church Just Might Be A Social Club, I discussed the results of someone listening to 18 hours of sermons at several of the biggest churches in the U.S., Saddleback being one of them. June 28, 2021 3 AM PT Rick Warren's announcement on June 6 that he plans to step away from his role as lead pastor at Saddleback Church in Lake Forest raises the issue of succession in. Lets talk about what that might look like. Comments like yours are difficult to respond to because they are almost entirely emotional. I will be praying for you. And a pastors calling is no better because he stands up front on the platform. No content on this site may be reused in any fashion without written permission. If youre recruiting them to be a small-group leader, whats the job of a small-group leader? The webpage has resources for discipleship and ways to plug into a Saddleback church. However, they had a much easier time than previously in dealing with their addiction. California-based megachurch Saddleback broke from the Southern Baptist Convention's deep-seated views on women in leadership and recently ordained three women pastors. I think thats called hypocrisyIf you have questions regarding calling out false teachers, then I suggest you read this post: https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/. He has limited gifts. John 4, Romans 16 and the Great Commission as validation for women to evangelize and spread the Gospel. Most pastors I know take a day off, and they catch up on all the stuff they couldnt get done during the week because they were doing ministry. The book, itself, is not born of Scripture despite containing over 1,200 Bible quotes. But churches like Saddleback lure people in with friendliness and self-help styled sermons. I too felt things were off with Warrens works and when I started to study the Word in relation to Warrens teachings I found his work to be eisegesical. Weve thought, Im supposed to be available 24/7. Guess what.., the men you criticize are actually in the trenches fighting fir the souls of men. It is the pastors job to equip. I think another piece of this is removing the chasm between those who are called to ministry and those who are laypeople. Oh, dear. expressed some concerns, but most recognizable names were positive. Some fringe weirdos (like me?) 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