1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. When it comes to tools, home improvement, and being a shade tree mechanic, youve come to the right spot. Can the engine shudder 21N08 issue be fixed without reprogramming the PCM? @Stevec1129 I haven't had the chance to try this yet, but I'm really hoping this new recall I see for my truck fixes the issue. UPDATE: So I talked to Ford customer service today. It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. If you click them and This just appeared in my ford pass. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Posts: 20. Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. 14. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. If your check engine light is on and youre experiencing engine shudder, your car may need a pcm reprogram. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. Transmission & Electrical Issue - Flashing D, N, and Gears, The wheel nuts for the Expedition 2015 are not compatible with the wheel wrench. Im getting a better understanding on this, now. But what exactly is engine shudder? When this happens, the engine can stall without warning and the vehicle may not be able to be restarted. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. How will this extend your powertrain warranty 2 years? I'm assuming this is like a TSB. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. . So you need to verify with your dealership with your VIN that the recall repairs have been done. The below is copied and pasted from this thread: 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Positive Experience: Third Party Warranty Repair, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. But unlike my previous trucks, this ones not going to be an overlander or rock crawler that needs to not leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. Reprogram the PCM using the latest software level of the appropriate Ford . By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. The truck seems to be driving fine, although I did have some cam/crank codes last month and went to dealer where they performed TSB 21-2357 and SSM 48423. The 21N08 update is pretty new like just a couple of weeks old, so I do not know if that will fix the engine shudder or the cold start rattle. Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. Had my cam phasers done back in July. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". 21N08B 1.2 Hours The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. If the rpm is above 16-1800 it drives smooth as can be. Oh ok perhaps a good point. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Honestly? The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is..If you were in my position, would you pull the . While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM . For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. 2. Reliability is important to me. By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. #5. Manage Preferences - Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Everything seems relatively fine since, no check engine lights. However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. Engine shudder is a vibration that can be felt in the vehicle's engine, and it is usually caused by an imbalance . It may not display this or other websites correctly. This repair is a one-time thing and is only offered until Janurary 1st, 2023. Y'all better read that letter again. You literally just typed back exactly what I said. If a car is not regularly maintained, it can lead to problems such as the engine shudder 21N08 issue. I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. Id like to know whats causing this as well. If your Ford Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM reprogrammed. Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. I got it too. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. The 21N03 was the one I was thinking of. Common transmission issues that may contribute to the engine shudder 21N08 issue include low transmission fluid levels, worn transmission components, or a damaged transmission control module. Good thing I bought the extended warranty. They are past due. Is this related to the cam phaser reflash FSA? You are using an out of date browser. If you own a Ford vehicle, theres a good chance that it has been recalled for a PCM reprogramming. This seems like a red flag when combined with the recent "Program #21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER" and "Program #21B10 POWERTRAIN CONTROL MODULE REPROGRAM FOR CAM PHASER RATTLE" repairs that show up on the carfax. You must log in or register to reply here. By addressing the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the cars performance and fuel efficiency can be improved. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. This PCM update is program 21B10. Question about cam phasers and pcm reprogram due to engine - Reddit Your email address will not be published. In some cases, this can lead to a crash. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. But, this process cant be run in an unauthorized way. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. JavaScript is disabled. Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. This site allows me to test new tools, piddle around in the garage, and share the insights I get from flipping cars and houses. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. Terms of Service - Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. Lincoln TSB 21N08 2019 Navigator | CarComplaints.com Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. The 21N08 PCM reprogramming is due to an engine shudder that was noticed by some customers. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. This can be caused by a variety of factors, including a dirty or faulty mass air flow sensor. 21n08 - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? You are using an out of date browser. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Shudder/Jerking Issue When Accelerating - Ford F150 Forum This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. Contact Us - The benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue include: By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder. In addition, the ECM will receive an update that will improve transmission shift quality. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? In some cases, a little bit of harmless vibrations is perfectly normal and nothing to worry about. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder". I had the original work done under warranty 54k . It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle, Rear Light Wiring Ford Tail Light Wire Colors, Top 6 Brake Pads for 2013 Ford F150 44: Find the Perfect Fit for Your Truck, 6 Best Mud Flaps for F150: Ultimate Guide for Truck Owners, Boost Your F150s Power: Best 9 Cold Air Intakes for 2017 Ecoboost Reviewed. Sep 13, 2021. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Cookie Policy - When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. Copyright 2022 by MechanicsPick.com! Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. You are using an out of date browser. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. It was program #21N08 PCM Reprogram due to engine shudder. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder I read somewhere that adding an octane booster for a couple of tanks will help. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. Even with these known issues, the Ford F150 has an annual maintenance cost estimate of about $858 per year. . Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. .any advice? A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. (1). . The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Mine does this while at low rpms. Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued - Ford Expedition Forum By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. I called my dealership this morning and they said there was nothing to be done to the vehicle. Has Ford corrected the Cam Phaser rattle in Gen3? The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. Manage Preferences - The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. If youve recently had your engine repaired or replaced, the new parts may not be compatible with the old PCM programming. Terms of Service - 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. The engine shudders 21N08 issue can be caused by a variety of factors, including problems with the PCM software, issues with the transmission, or a lack of proper maintenance. If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. Terms of Service - Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. It is difficult for me to get a price right now on the PCM reprogramming since it is still under warranty for a few more weeks, so most front-desk service advisors dont have pricing. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. JavaScript is disabled. Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. What causes the engine shudder 21N08 issue? I would like to hear from some of the owners which have had the 21N08 update done and see if their issues have gone away. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. Ford then released two further customer satisfaction programs as an extension of coverage. In some cases, the PCM may need to be reprogrammed in order to fix the problem. Ford TSB 21N08: Technical Service Bulletin for the 2019 Ford F-150. I have a 2018, just got the same notice. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. Reaction score. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Hello mjpatera! Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. This new customer satisfaction program is designed to reverse engine shudder caused by this previous PCM calibration. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. I started Fordmasterx as an effort to combine my two passions writing and car ownership into one website. Advertising - This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. The vehicle is a CPO but I feel like the selling dealership didn't do a great job looking it over, so I took to a local dealer in AZ (I purchased it in UT). Diagram. GEN 2 (2017-2020) Ford F-150 Raptor Forums, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Need some help ASAP Code P06B6/ Faulty PCM, Ford SVT Raptor General Discussions [GEN 1], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. PCM reprogram due to engine shudder (Program 21n08) Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. cam phaser rattles. One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. Reaction score. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Check with your dealer to see if your vehicle is eligible and make an appointment for service. Advertising - Program 21N08 will be performed if your vehicle exhibits an engine shudder during light throttle operation between 1,500 and 2,500 rpm. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising This removes the shudder. Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. There is a new Recall specifically for this. They will uninstall and re-install the program using specialized equipment and software. Privacy Statement - From what the rep told me 21B10 needed to be done before 21N08 even though I have a FSA for 21N08. States PCM reprogram due to engine shudder, is this anyway related to 21B03. I have a new to me 2017 SCREW that I purchased about a month ago. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. These are named 21N03 which is targeted to the startup rattle and replaces the cam phasers. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. Powertrain Control Module Reprogram for Cam Phaser Rattle Privacy Statement - At the time of the PCM reprogramming, it may address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, as this issue is often caused by a problem with the PCM software. If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". 21N08 is for those with engine shudders. Detroit. I hope that you find everything you need on our website and that we can help guide you through all your automotive needs. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . The situation is really bad with Ford now. Engine - Fordmasterx These are technically not recalls but an extension of coverage if the customer has a concern and falls within the window of . Location. Contact Us - PCM Reprogram Due To Engine Shudder 21N08 - Tool Tally BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. Within a day or less, the cam phaser was rattling again and my engine was shuddering. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. Summary. Likes: 1. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Unfortunately, many users reported a return of the symptoms after the 21B10 reflash. Hey! That said, after some pressuring, I had a Ford technician told me that it would likely cost around $300 to run the reprogramming on your PCM if you were to bring it in outside of warranty. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. PDF TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 20- 3.5L EcoBoost - Cold Start Ticking Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? Manage Preferences - That said, Id still check. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. However, for peace of mind, Ford is providing an extended warranty for customers who receive the PCM update under program 21B10 prior to December 31, 2021 and continue to experience cam phaser noise after receiving that PCM update, A cam phaser that has developed an undesirable noise does not affect the vehicle safety, performance, or emissions. I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. MORE importantly, do it or not, it says they will only cover repairs until JAN 1, 2023. When the computer is programmed, it will erase this programming andthe vehicle will have to relearn your driving habits. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. This is because the PCM reprogramming process addresses the root cause of the issue and can help to prevent the issue from recurring in the future. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Has anyone had FSA 21N08 reflash done yet? | Page 4 | Ford Expedition Forum This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. This is the PCM update to prevent cam phaser rattle and will erase your tune. Are CSP's only performed as needed? The good news is that replacing the cam phasers will fix the cold start rattle. First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? Gotcha. How can I verify my PCM is extended to 70k? it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Privacy Statement - Strange first post. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. And if you do need to restart it, make sure youre in neutral or park before doing so. What is my next option? (2). Powertrain Control Module Reprogram For Cam Phaser Rattle I had the original work done under warranty 54k miles. 21B10 will be the first thing a Ford dealer would do. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. Cookie Policy - It is important to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue to maintain the performance and safety of the vehicle. The Powertrain Control Module (PCM) needs to have been first reprogrammed under the earlier customer satisfaction program 21B10. 21N08 Ford Technical Service Bulletin - tsbsearch.com Thanks! Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. I noticed mine is doing this as well. What did you do to your truck today? The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is a computer located in a cars engine that controls the cars engine and transmission. However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. Ford TSB 21N08 2019 F-150 | CarComplaints.com Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. While engine shudder can be alarming, its important to keep in mind that not all instances are created equal. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. My name is Zachary Drumm! The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. The PCM reprogramming process can help to prevent the engine shudder 21N08 issue from recurring in the future. If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. . JavaScript is disabled. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. No matter what the cause of your engine shudder may be, its always best to err on the side of caution and get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Advertising - Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. We cover this rattle in detail and how to fix it for free. Cam phaser requires extensive effort and should only be attempted by those who are comfortable with working on cars. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. The three trucks I have looked at have had the 21N08 update, so my question is.If you were in my position, would you pull the trigger on any of those trucks? So they basically work 15 hours but get paid only 10 hours. Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. I was told by my dealer that any FSA'S that have a "B" in them is a fix they are required to do. JavaScript is disabled. The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the.
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