Fr. Stephen: Doesnt everyone? Fr. Fr. He's the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast and a co-host of the Lord of Spirits podcast from Ancient Faith. So the Torah and its rituals, including the Day of Atonement, cant be an end in themselves. Lord of Spirits: Sons of God, Equal to the Angels. Fr. Fr. So how could the Jews who did not convert to Christianity still practice their faith? They come into power in the same way that our sin brings us under the power, brings us into bondage under those hostile powers. So, the reason why this battle is so important is because the Temple had been desecrated by Antiochus Epiphanesit wasnt Antiochus, was it? Fr. They would all say: the gospel of John and the epistle. So that was kind of over-translated. About Fr. Yeah, so why? The goat is not caused to suffer. The Nephilim were said to be a race or a group of people that had distinct physical characteristics of large size and great strength. Andrew: Yeah [Laughter] So they just kind of perpetuated what had been done before. We have to learn to think symbolically! [Laughter]. Thats okay. Fr. Fr. [Laughter]. And if hes of Azazel, this one whos teaching this forbidden knowledge, then hes doing the works of his father, so to speak; hes imaging Azazel. Stephen: Im Um, actually"ing you in real time. Theres a text variant there as to whether it says monon or monn. The early Christians did not deduce the doctrine of the Trinity from the fact that they were worshiping Jesus, nor did they come up with Trinitarian theology as a way of buffering the Church against heresy. I am coming to understand that the Orthodox view is the correct one. Amazon.com: Stephen De Young: books, biography, latest update The reality is more like what we were talking about tonight that we see unfold in the Scriptures with atonement and everything else, that there are these cosmic realities of spiritual warfare, of Christ defeating the powers of evil, of Christ setting us free and purifying us, making us holy and setting us apart and bringing us into his kingdom; that are cosmic realities that each of us has been given the gift of being able to participate in, in time. Andrew in an outline group connected to the podcast group. I think thats a net loss to you, frankly. Andrew Damick, Michael Landsman, and Ancient Faith Radio, Fr. Hes coming; we have to get ready. A dissertation submitted to the faculty of the School of Graduate Studies, Hebrew Union College - Jewish Institute of Religion (2009) . Stephen De Young discusses the first three verses of Revelation, Chapter 11. But Im not sure that the body of the book establishes this. Stephen: And youll see it in even Orthodox translations, because a lot of our early Orthodox translations were either utilizing or aping the King James Version language, and so you can kind of see how you can get there, like if you go from a very developed theological idea, where you dont really know what the Hebrew word means, so youre thinking, Well, okay, God is enthroned behind the ark of the covenant, between the cherubim. Stephen: So the whole thing is burned. Augh! Stephen: Yes, so allow me to feed that a little bit. Fr. Its also the Roman soldiers who are doing these Day of Atonement things in St. Matthews gospel. Fr. My only criticism of The Religion of the Apostles is that its purpose seems ambiguous. There is literally no informationnow, this ritual, when you read Leviticus 16, theres a lot of detail here; weve already started with some of it, were going to have more detail as we go, but exactly whats to be done, there is no detail on how this goat is to be killed. And that is so so heart-rendingly beautiful. Stephen: Yeah, so this gets sort of double interesting, because not only do we have the made-up English word that is primarily reflecting, as you just described, an English concept than it is trying to reflect an original word The reason for that is the Greek word, ilasterion, doesnt occur anywhere that we still possess until Jewish folks start using it, meaning the Greek Old Testament and then works like Philo, Josephus, etc. They see this as a kind or type of atonement. Awesome stuff! He purifies even them. Andrew: Which is not the way confession works either, by the way, in case anyones thinking, Wait, what? Theres a wonderful parallel, in some ways, between these things. What are the actual, original words? The answer is that they had to invent a new religion. These werent special, magic goats. Ill take it. So the first covering that happens, the reason this is done on this day, as weve mentioned in previous episodes, is that this is the day that Yahweh chose to appear visibly in the holy of holies. Fr. Father Stephen De Young's comments on political converts "If you're a high church Protestant, and your denomination starts ordaining women, and that's the only reason you're interested in joining the Orthodox Church, if they had never started ordaining women, you would have happily stayed there your entire life, you should not become Orthodox. So where does that word? Fr. Fr. I can describe to you the inner workings of countless fictional universes. Stephen DeYoung takes an axe to the root of the tree of Neo-Marcionite misreadings of the Old Testament prevalent in academic and popular-level biblical studies literature.Fr. Stephen: Everyone loves to read Leviticus. He holds a PhD in Biblical Studies from Amridge University. Fr. Fr. The idea Theres a presupposition there that its somehow mechanical, that God saving us is like an elaborate Rube Goldberg machine in an OK Go video or something, where he puts things in motion and at the end somebody gets saved. Fr. One of the doctrines that Rabbinic Judaism removed from their religion was the teaching widespread in the Second Temple Period that God is more than one person. [Laughter]. Islam, in: Encyclopedia of the Bible and Its Reception (EBR), vol. And again, this is all about not dying. Stephen is also the host of the Whole Counsel of God podcast from Ancient Faith and author of the Whole Counsel Blog. Fr. Andrew: Awesome. Fr. On our next episode, were going to be starting a two-part series on sacred geography. Stephen shows convincingly that, as far as world religions go, Judaism is the newest kid on the block, having originated in the 6th century. Is atonement purely theoretical? Andrew: That would be a long, long list. These studies were recorded live and include questions from his audience. Boom. So we have again in Leviticus 16 a fair amount of detail describing exactly whats going on. Stephen: [Laughter] Because exactly the question you just asked. I dont know. [Laughter] where it describes what Tubal-cain created. Stephen: When the subject of atonement comes up in most Western theological circles, this is where they go, is to Isaiah, specifically Isaiah 53:4-5, which has those famous lines about he was wounded by our transgressions; by his stripes we are healed, all of that language. Stephen shows convincingly that throughout the Old Testament, God was understood to be more than one person, and this was never a point of dispute during the Judaism of the Second Temple Period. Name that word! Andrew, or the Orthodox Church, or anyone else just coming and bashing on Western churches and saying, Ha ha ha! And a very well-known biblical scholar and a very good biblical scholar, Simon Gathercole, who wrote the magisterial material on the Gospel of Thomas, for example, amongst many other great things, did a book a few years ago on atonement, trying to defend the particular atonement theory of penal substitutionary atonement. You get these atonement theories that are then theories of how it works from Gods end; how God does it. Fr. Andrew: Okay, Matthew 8. Stephen: The Antiochus was obviously a family name of the Seleucid dynasty, and they all took these titles. Andrew: [Laughter] That is true, but you cant have the parallel with Shark Week then. Fr. 13-26. Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper Was Hams Wife of the Nephilim?, Partial review of Marco Romano and Marco Avanzinis The skeletons of Cyclops and Lestrigons by Ken Ammi, The Nephilim and Rephaim: Satans Seed from Creation and Emergence in the Great Tribulation, Exegetical Discord in Genesis 6.1-4 Hermeneutics: Etiology of Evil Obscured, Open Review of the Center for Rational Theologys Abarim Publications on Nephilim and Giants in the Bible, by Ken Ammi, Response to Richard Sorensens review of my paper Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, Angels in the Targums, An Examination of Angels, Demons, and Giants in the Pentateuch Targums, How Nephilim Absconded from the Tanakh and Invaded Folkloric Territory, A review of Adrienne Mayor's paper "Giants in Ancient Warfare" by Ken Ammi, When Gods Roamed the Earth: Thematic Parallels to Gen. 6:1-4 from the Ancient Near East, Review of Richard B. Sorensens paper, Were the Nephilim Genetically Psychopathic?, The Council of the Titans: The Old Greek Gods Among the Amorites, "The Giant in a Thousand Years: Tracing Narratives of Gigantism in the Hebrew Bible and Beyond," in Goff, Stuckenbruck, and Morano (eds. Yeah, so heres the thing, that the King James Bible translates this word, when its used for, Fr. Fr. It is very common for all kinds of, shall we say, advanced theological ideas, that have come into being over time, through a long history of development, to all be read back into usually the Greek word in the New Testament. Stephen: No, it has nothing to do with that. I think weve seen tonight how a lot of discussions of atonement are based on reading backwards, so you start with a developed theological idea, read it back into the New Testament, and then from there back into the Old Testament, instead of what we hopefully did with reasonable success tonight, which is start in the Old Testament and read forward and see how things unfold. I mean, obviously he has to touch it, but theres not this ritualized laying-on of hands thats going on that Im seeing here, unless Im just missing it, Father; I dont know. So to prepare for that, he has to offer a special sin-offering for himself, because he needs to be, because hes going to go all the way in, he has to be at this state of purity and holiness that is unsurpassed. Thats like everyones evening devotional reading right there. Fr. No, what hes doing is hes describing what actually happens to Christ, but hes using language that should remind you of the Day of Atonement ritual in order for you to make that connection, the connection that actually does exist. Stephen: Yeah, I hope youve got a pigeon, a lamb, and a young ox.. This is from an apostle, letting us know how to interpret that Isaiah passage. Dont wait: go buy yourself a copy of The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century. You know what Im saying? Andrew: Yeah, back to where it belongs. Fr. You guys are all wrong! Andrew: So its not like the Slavic word that has to do with a gross-tasting bubbling beverage, kefir? Fr. So he gives some of these details, so some of the details we get from that are a scarlet cord being tied around the goats head, and that when they after the sins had been placed on the goat, the people would sort of gather in the streets, and they would get reeds, and theyd strike the goat and hit it to sort of drive it out. So Ill take the heat for that one. They werent like that. You can get super in the weeds! Academia.edu uses cookies to personalize content, tailor ads and improve the user experience. And if they did, what was that signifying when they laid hands on it? And while they were driving the goat out, they would sort of mock the goat and spit at the goat as a sign of them rejecting their sins. It has this sort of importance as a major battle site. So theres this orderly, beautiful, purified, sacred space where God dwells with his people, and then chaos is whats on the outside. Fr. These are just a few examples of how Fr. [Laughter]. Fr. I have this crazy new doctrine of God I want everyone to follow me on. But, yeah, theres this reference in 1 John 3:12, which makes reference of Cain being of the wicked one, who murders his brother. I dont think theyre such long questions. Stephen: In any way. Stephen: Yeah, and hes often associated with other symbols like the caduceus of enlightenment and that kind of thing, but well talk about that more here in the second half. Okay, so, but there was something else also, a connection from John 17. The Place of Man in the Ontological and Cosmological Dualism of the Diablo, Darksiders and Devil May Cry Game Series, Satan the Great Dragon Enlil, Ushumgallu and Bashmu. Basically, you extract its blood. Fr. As a bridge between the discussion of Christ in St. Paul's epistles and Christ in the General Epistles, it is important to discuss a second factor in St. Paul's understanding of Christ as God. Instagram, RSS & iTunes Its sort of spiritual entropy, so to speak. Length: 2:12:00. So weve got: I go out to my sheep. Fr. Stephen De Young. Fr. Stephen: This goat-spirit of the wilderness is then picked up in a lot of later imagery, probably the most famous being Baphomet, this sort of Satan-figure or devil-figure. Stephen: Yeah, and note that its not just Jews who are doing these Day of Atonement things. But in terms of using the term and talking about it as a concept, 1 John is the place. But hes appropriately describing it to help you make that connection, because what are the gospels? Stephen: Right, they have to be GOAT goats. I know people are being moved to sympathy for the goat in all this. Andrew: Its a response. Andrew Stephen Damick, Richard Rohlin, and Ancient Faith Radio. The understanding of the geography, biblical text and the cosmological significance of the area of Transjordan, and specifically Bashan in the Bible, give valuable understanding to what Jesus expressed: And as it was in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of Man.". We cannot really begin considering "giants" unless and until we define that vague, genetic, subjective term (and I can think of 5-6 definitions). Pauls Works of the Law in the Perspective of Second Century Reception, by Matthew J. Thomas A Review, John the Presbyter: Eusebius Imaginary Friend. Fr. So, Dan, are you there? Fr. So this sort of has positive connotations. That was bad for you! [Laughter] Yeah, so Azazel is caught up in all this. Stephen De Young finishes up the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 12, and starts on Chapter 13. So that means the one thats going to be used for the more positive and holy purpose has to be pure, unblemished, no broken bones, not a runt, etc., but since it could be either, they both have to be that. Fr. The answer, according to Fr. So it was covering all of the commandments that had been broken, which was pretty much all of them. For 10% off your first month, use the link, http://www.faithfulcounseling.com/gospelsimplicityMost Christians. YouTube Stephen: Right, and you especially dont need to bring any livestock to the church. And from that perspective, it just doesnt make sense. Andrew: There you go: the Day of the Covering. Stephen: Because of this sort of schism in the way we bizarrely celebrate scholarship of the New Testament from the Old Testament. Stephen: Right, and this is the only sacrificial ritual of any kind in the Torah in which sins are placed on an animal. Genesis, 6:1-4. Stephen: We dont want any. What Hebrews 9:11-14 says that the key event that made this transition between the purification of just this small sacred space to the whole of creation is when Christ enters into the heavenly sanctuary as high priest, which is describing his ascension into heaven. Thank you very much for listening, everybody. Stephen: Yeah, I mean you may have to deal with this mercy-seat stuff, but now you know how that works, so youre all set for Leviticus. Fr. Christ is the High Priest who does this final Day of Atonement, the one that ends them all. And he takes that over from this Second Temple literature. Can you hear me? Stephen: [Laughter] So well start with the good goat. But completely wrong. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. Im going to describe this. That would have been a great quest line. Stephen: Right, so this purification has happened, so those animals are no longer unclean from outside the camp, and therefore, not metaphorically but literally, Cornelius, this Roman, is now also clean, just as clean as any Judean, and therefore able to receive the Holy Spirit as he does after St. Peter preaches the Gospel to him. Andrew: Right, because, again, what is sacrifice? Stephen: That would be like an inception; yeah, that might be good. [Laughter] Yeah. Fr. Stephen: But due to the frequency of the show, is it not actually Goat Fortnight? Academia.edu no longer supports Internet Explorer. This goat, we dont know nothing. Stephen: Right, and that enlightenment imagery, like the caduceus and those kind of things that are attached to Baphomet is the same kind of things. Andrew: And freedom being given by Christ from that. How does him healing diseases fulfill that? Five-ish Angelic Falls and Three Human Falls - Copious Flowers Fr. So all of this is being done on this day because of his appearance. Andrew: Did you have a second question? Andrew: Yeah, the GOATiest. Stephen De Young finishes his discussion about Romans Chapter 11. One of these beliefs concerned the Jewish origins of the New Testament. This isnt just an intellectual maneuver; this is something we can experience and participate in in real time, and thats what Lent and Holy Week and Pascha are going to be all about. Fr. Its a huge, huge deal, super, super important. What we want is not just to understand salvation but to experience salvation, and understanding the cosmic realities and how we come to participate [in] them, ritually and every other way, is the way that that experience becomes real to us. Its really, really cool. That doesnt make it not historical. But within this context of atonement, that Christ assumes the whole human experience, and therefore heals it all. and he has to suffer now and get sacrificed! Like, thats not [Laughter] Thats not what the Scripture actually depicts. Fr. Yes, yes, yes! Andrew Stephen Damick: Thank you, Voice of Steve! [Laughter]. You also find in 1 John 5:19 the whole world lies under the power of the evil one.. by Father Stephen De Young In response to what he viewed as not merely a malformation but a destruction of the Eucharist in Roman practice, John Calvin was dogmatic that the Eucharist is not a sacrifice. Fr. And so, start with a verse near and dear to my heart, because I spent a chunk of my life with it, and thats 1 John 2:2. Fr. Maybe Fr. It fell into disrepair. Stephen De Young concludes the discussion of Revelation, Chapter 11. Fr. Stephen: And this is why we eat ceremonial cakes on Meatfare Sunday. Fr. [Laughter] But when hands were laid in sacrificial rituals Its the goat for Azazel where it says he lays hands on it and then pronounces the sins. I expected the book to be my final vindication in dozens of ongoing debates with well-meaning brothers and sisters who keep telling me that knowledge of the Second Temple period (roughly the period in Jewish history from the reconstruction of the Temple at the time of Nehemiah through it its destruction in AD 70) is neither necessary nor helpful for understanding the New Testament. Dr. Stephen De Young is Pastor of Archangel Gabriel Orthodox Church in Lafayette, Louisiana. Stephen: I know you really want Goat Week to be a thing. Im going to give you this job, so look this up, Richard. Fr. Hebrews 9: Likewise he sprinkled the tent and all the vessels used in the worship with the blood. Its really cool. Stephen: In St. Matthews gospel in particular we see a lot of this connection to Christ as the scapegoat, and one of the places where we really see that isnow this requires you reading some outside the New Testament literaturebut the epistle of Barnabas gives a little bit more detailed description of how the Day of Atonement ritual was being performed, sort of in some of the small details that had accrued over time, in the first century AD. Fr. Related Episodes Violence in the Old Testament: Sin, Death and Justice in the Bible Lord of Spirits: Blessings and Curses What exactly is a blessing? Fr. Stephen: So you see this same dynamic, the end of Luke: Luke ends with Emmaus, and then theyre in the Temple, and you pick up Acts and theyre not hanging around in the Temple for some reason, because St. Luke uses this imagery of, now, re-dedication of the Temple being the whole creation, and then, now that its been rededicated, the presence of God, the Holy Spirit, can come and dwell in sons, daughters, everyone, because of this purification that has happened.
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