Thrust means that slower-is-better no longer applies: now, slower means less drag but more gravity, so there's a tradeoff (which I'm not going to carefully calculate for you, because it's hard). Basically there are two things that limit your maximum speed: thrust and speed of sound and with that your maximum altitude. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Display as a link instead, I also set it to enable the cockpit's reaction wheels to improve control at high altitude, and close air intakes to reduce drag. One problem is i'm running stock on career mode and only have 30 part to spare, so large planes are out of the question. How to know if you've nailed it perfectly: when you're cruising in level flight, you want the marker to be precisely centered in your navball cross-hairs. But you'll need to unlock: Which cost 300 science. Control Sensativty for Planes - KSP2 Suggestions and Development Please consider starting a new thread rather than reviving this one. It'll probably be more efficient with more intakes, but I wouldn't increase the number of engines. It only takes a minute to sign up. Orbiting is the most fun one: the higher the orbit, the less speed you need to maintain to stay in orbit, *and* the less air there is, so that's a double-whammy in terms of reducing fuel consumption. Proceed with caution. Thanks, I'll go try to stuff a few extra turbojets and intakes on my plane Do you know how many intakes/turbojet are needed to run in the regime you described? Thank you, I was able to reach up to 24km altitude with this design. Fighting oscillations. For comparison, the second most maneuverable engine is the CR-7 R.A.P.I.E.R. Thats my problem right now. June 3, 2022 . Yes. Approximately 12km up the main engines stop providing enough thrust to maintain the climb, so it's time to switch to rocket mode. AoA itself refers to the angle of the wing (or the whole plane if the AoI is 0)relative to the airflow. But since when do Kerbals wait for ideal conditions? This way control surface max deflection can be programmed by an aircraft designer to make . But maybe your patience? With some fins to keep you stable and careful aim, you can hit your desired location and altitude and will have 5-10 seconds to collect data before you hurtle past it and pull your chute. FBW uses three controllers - pitch, roll and yaw. When added to a plane it allows tuning of the controls vs speed/altitude/G load/other factors. No, I think it's correct, unless I've got a brain fart going, here. I've added more engines, more intakes to no avail. TroubleshootingMechJebPVG - KSP-RO/RP-0 GitHub Wiki The Kerbal Space Program subreddit. A little while back I spent a long time trying to circumnavigate Kerbin on the least liquid fuel possible (i posted the record to the sub: 254 units of fuel. What's the difference between a power rail and a signal line? (the engines will use very little at high altitude anyway). There's basically three ways to do that: lifting surfaces, thrust, and orbiting. I decided to look into that two intakes thing, and it turns out to make 11-12 m/s difference at 19,000m with my plane. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. This lowers their effective "weight"-- for example, a craft flying at 1400 m/s on Kerbin is effectively flying as if gravity were only 2/3 of its actual value. That will unlock: Well, this game isn't a perfect flight simulator yet, so it will be difficult to figure out. So the faster you go the higher you can fly where there is less drag. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. It is somewhat slow but very steady in flight. Sub-orbital spaceflight - Wikipedia even stranger is that the surface is textured. Thankyou all, I now reckon I have a much better understanding of the engines, hopefully that'll translate to better aircraft. Because when your engine has to take in air forcefully it automatically means there isn't enough surrounding your engine and that again means that air density and therefor air resistance must be pretty low too. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. 1Altitude requirement 2Orbit 3Speed, range, and altitude 4Flight duration 5Flight profiles 5.1Ballistic missiles 5.2Tourist flights 5.3Scientific experiments 5.4Sub-orbital transportation 6Notable uncrewed sub-orbital spaceflights 7Crewed sub-orbital spaceflights 8Future of crewed sub-orbital spaceflight 9See also 10References Satellite Launcher - Kerbal Space Program Wiki At sea level, it produces 120 kn thrust, but at 15 km altitude, it only produces 13.7 kn of thrust, barely enough to provide any thrust to climb higher, Long and narrow wing has less surface area to provide lift, and at higher altitude, the atmospher is so thin that the lift generated by long and narrow wings is insufficient for sustainable flight. (Actually, four ways: but balloons aren't in the stock game) Lifting surfaces are great but they lose effectiveness just as fast with altitude as drag falls. If it's above the cross-hairs, you need a little less. TLDR: You need parts you don't have to make a plane that flies that high. Sustained flight at over 20km requires at a minimum the Panther in Afterburning mode. Once I'm near or in the target area, I set the throttle to 0 and start the Swivel. I'm trying to build a high altitude plane and have found out that the rules are different. Your previous content has been restored. I started by attaching two LV-909 rocket engines to a regular low-atmosphere plane: In this save, I don't have custom action groups yet, so I'm using the RCS control to toggle between jet and rocket modes. Along with rockets, planes are one of KSP's most commonly referenced kinds of vessel, and are a vessel type . You get tons of thrust if you put it into "wet" mode, but you lose fuel efficiency. If the wings are flat and your plane steadily loses altitude in level flight at a given speed (as most designs will by default), it means you either need to pitch up slightly, increasing the angle of attack and keeping your vertical velocity at 0 by flying up slightly to compensate for the pull of gravity that lift isn't compensating for. This tutorial will cover designing and flying a plane that can soar at high altitudes! What are the minimum altitudes for each warp level? at the very least, you'd need the panther, that'll get you over 16k easily, well to 25k. Another problem is jet engines stealing fuel from the rockets' tanks - you may want to pump the fuel manually (requires an R&D centre upgrade) or add some pipes between them. EDIT: Essentially, make like an SR-71, if an SR-71 didn't have cooling problems limiting it to Mach 3.4. This causes the body of your plane to generate additional drag. Once it's in the air, it's stable and easy to fly and manages to fly at altitudes between 11k 12k without problems. Check out the website and try the game out for yourself :Dhttps://kerbalspaceprogram.com/ The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. From my observations I can say that "Efficiency" is not a good indicator of how well your engine performs. Or is it the same for all celestial bodies? Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. Tutorial: Making the AI fly | BDArmory Wikia | Fandom The U-2's published maximum altitude is somewhere above 74,000 feet. Typically, I watch my Apoapsis as I boost to the high altitude, and there's enough momentum to coast to the peak before completely running out of fuel. KSP Career: Episode 13 - High Altitude Surveys Mike Aben 28.5K subscribers Subscribe 7.7K views 7 years ago Day 114: A busy day at the KSC with three missions, the highlights being the launch. Display as a link instead, Early career high altitude observations question : r/KerbalAcademy Is there a single-word adjective for "having exceptionally strong moral principles"? Have you checked out the wiki yet? Clear editor. At altitude the nose goes up and down until it goes out of control. How to tell which packages are held back due to phased updates. 3x06: I design a new, high altitude, jet to collect high. Upload or insert images from URL. You can post now and register later. as a rule of thumb they all lose thrust at higher altitudes and at high velocities. In my case, it brought me to 20km up at a 45-degree angle, but it is probably not optimal. A temple in the desert (6 29 47 S 141 40 3 W) known as Tut-Un Jeb-Ahn, although this name can only be seen when a vessel crashes into it. It will be expensive and time consuming. - Spamming airintakes didn't help. With only panthers unlocked I might add. What are the altitudes for the various altitude record contracts? This means that the only thing that decides wheter your engines run efficient is determined by how much thrust they produce (opt. Airplane Plus on SpaceDock That would argue for going as high as possible, as slow as possible, but apart from drag you also have to fight gravity. Pretty often, the tail "wiggled" and/or the plane became totally unstable when I fired the rocket boosters. Double your speed, you need twice as much fuel. rev2023.3.3.43278. Keep in mind that wheesley engine's performance decreases significantly as the altitude increases. Rockets aren t the only way to get to space. Cheers again fellas. Your engine burns the same amount of jetfuel per second regardless of how high or fast you are! Air Flow: Air Flow represents with how much force air passes the turbine (notice: different amounts of air at the same speed equals in different amounts of force!). Yes, although they have only been flown with nearly full tanks. What you should be concerned about is atmospheric drag, and that's minimized by high-altitude flight. So that means that even if you are inside the atmosphere but still orbital (such as during aerobraking), your science will not count as "Inside the atmosphere", For example, orbiting Kerbin above 250km altitude, your science is counted as "In Space High over Kerbin." That's all true, but just read the OP: hypersonic appears to be completely out of the question. Plane - Kerbal Space Program Wiki In the main KSP settings menu you should set the default throttle to 1.0 (technically the above mechjeb setting winds up restoring the default throttle, so it needs to be 1.0) In the attitude adjustment menu make sure you are using the "better controller" Whack the 45 degree phase margin button Whack the restore all other defaults button You arent doing anything wrong. At the equator, sea level temperatures vary between a nighttime low of 9 C and a daytime high of 15 C. This works, but it's not optimal. Aircraft can be very temperamental to fly, especially on the keyboard. The most efficient way is, of course, to make a high altitude (or space) plane. Something that I think has become less clear since someone updated the wiki. Grichman's answer got me in the right direction. Can't remember where I saw/read about it - Scott Manley maybe? I don't have the numbers handy, but you can expect something like 400m/s at 15km. Note that KSP planes get one substantial speed benefit that's much more pronounced than IRL aircraft, due to the freakishly small planet sizes: they're actually flying at a large fraction of orbital velocity. It's also worth noting that this engine has the widest thrust vectoring range of all of the jet engines, with a full 10-degree range in all directions. Your answer got me in the right direction, though I ended up with a different design (see my own answer). Note that keeping the plane weight low is critical, only carry a very small amount of fuel. Best way to get down into thicker air and land is to perform what dogfighters called a 'Split-S'. I was even able to do this with three pairs of Junos instead of the large jet engine pair (I don't have the technology level for that). 1.) Also, jets eat fuel at pounds-per-minute -- if you cover twice as much ground in the same time, your plane will be more efficient. The drag differential is because your long-wing layout is using a bunch of struts, and the reason your delta-wing has a higher ceiling is because it has more wing area to provide lift. Why do many companies reject expired SSL certificates as bugs in bug bounties? If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. How do i build a high altitude plane? : r/KerbalSpaceProgram - reddit I followed a similar strategy. Long distance airplane flight tips? - Kerbal Space Program Forums Listen to this guy, don't go much farther above 15000 with high altitude engines. Since gravity is effectively lower, they don't need as much wing area to maintain altitude-- which, in turn, means less drag, which makes for more efficient flight. Is it correct to use "the" before "materials used in making buildings are"? At this point the plane plummets, but as it goes deeper into the atmosphere, it regains pitch authority, and at 10km it's enough to regain control and turn it around for a safe landing. KSP also tends to have very harsh induced drag if angle of attack gets too high. Yes. When I say ", You know you've nailed it correctly if, when you're in level flight, your. Welcome to the forums, ZDW. I don't recall if they model aspect ratio, but either way, the struts are murder and the delta wing has so much more wing that it'll still have more lift. Pvt. Or it can supercruise at three times the speed of an equivalent Wheesley jet (with nearly equal fuel efficiency) at 15,000 m altitude. Here's my example of dealing with the situation. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers.. Visit Stack Exchange That will unlock: "Whiplash" Turbojet Which is capable of high altitude, high speed flight. GitHub - Boris-Barboris/AtmosphereAutopilot: Plugin for Kerbal Space My question is really about controllability. Once you're at that regime, you should be able to cover huge distances on tiny amounts of fuel. That annoys me but I can't seem to get a design to make it work. high altitude flight :: Kerbal Space Program General Discussions Any of my search term words; All of my search term words; Find results in. I was hoping that the new intakes would give it the added altitude. 4. Planes in Space - The Kerbal Player's Guide [Book] This thread is quite old. So I'm pretty darn new to KSP, and my career has barely gotten started, and the jobs for crew observations seem to dominate The ideal case for optimally efficient flight (which is what you want if you're trying to maximize cruise altitude) is when your wings are mounted to the body, pitched up just enough that when cruising in level flight, the body of the aircraft is pointing perfectly . Chapter 4. Either of the two speeds are to be avoided. First off as of .15.1 intakes don't do anything. Air Intake: Air Intake shows the amount of force your engine uses to suck air into the turbine. I start with the normal jet engines (which takes almost the complete runway). One of my planes is small and agile, and can easily enough glide to a safe landing even if the rockets consume all the fuel. As you found out, it basically konks out at 15km. KSP - High Altitude Aircraft 16,702 views Jan 22, 2016 172 Dislike Share Save Phoenix Fleet Systems 222 subscribers Have a type of atmospheric craft you'd like to see me experiment with? Jet engine - Kerbal Space Program Wiki I find that a conservative amount is 2 RAM intakes and 2-4 radial intakes per turbojet. You can halve the drag by climbing a bit less than 3500m. Challenges These designs are great for getting around Kerbin quickly, but without going orbital. You can go above 20km with the J-404 Panther. Ok, the panther engine is still not good enough. Due to the lower air pressure at higher altitudes its thrust output decreases accordingly. Espaol - Latinoamrica (Spanish - Latin America), https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948095, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1933948668, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1934517923, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1335577943, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640213502, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1640214586, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937826505, https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1937931692. CONTROLABLE plane for ~20km altitude? :: Kerbal Space Program General (Disclaimer: I've never used FAR myself; all of the above is based on my experience with stock aerodynamics. Upload or insert images from URL. Is anywhere a list of the altitude levels (I don't know a better term) available? Don't be too surprised if KSP's aero model breaks down in edge cases. Using indicator constraint with two variables, Is there a solution to add special characters from software and how to do it. Or you need to put a little bit of angle of incidence in your wings, which will reduce drag since you don't have to pitch the entire plane up, but will be stuck at a fixed angle meaning you'll have to pitch up or down anyway during certain phases of the flight that the plane isn't optimised for. Things that work at low altitude don't work so well up high and the plane ends up going up and down while slowly losing speed until it can't maintain altitude anymore. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. High altitude flight is efficient because the air is thinner, and therefore aircraft experience less parasitic drag. You cannot paste images directly. But my guess is that these same general principles would probably apply to FAR, and that all that would change would be the numbers involved. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. What plane in existence can fly at the highest altitude, and - Quora below 5,000 m), since the engine's extreme maneuverability may allow the aircraft to perform turns sharply enough to break up in flight. high-2 A Screenshot of Kerbal Space Program Remembering the FW TA152 and the U2 I put long wings on it and while its turn rate makes an airliner look like a fighter plane it is stable enough at 19000m. To get higher with the low tech jet engines, you need rocket assist. The other thing to bear in mind is that tuning the AoA (angle of attack) of your wings makes a difference. There are no requirements as far as size or power are concerned, as the AI Pilot is capable of flying pretty much anything - from tiny scout planes to oversized freight craft. The Boeing X-37, also known as the Orbital Test Vehicle (OTV), is a reusable robotic spacecraft. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. Either finish the low-altitudes and then spend all your fuel on the high-altitude boost, or do the boost first and save a little fuel or try to hit the rest through unpowered gliding. Building a rocket to fly vertical seems to be nearly impossible, in the atmosphere they tend to become unstable (or maybe I missed a trick?). Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. It may work with stock too, I just don't know. Planes in Space. Most SSTO space planes would be able to accomplish this easily. More air is better. Don't rely on the efficiency indicator! Ksp engine altitudes : r/KerbalSpaceProgram - reddit 2.) Slap that behind a plane you'll be able to go beyond 20km without any trouble. Anyway thanks in advance. Which lets you go faster, which lets you climb higher. I don't have that cockpit in my career game yet, but maybe it will work with the other one. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. Make sure we're on the same page with terminology. The maximum cruise altitude is just over 40,000 feet. Kerbal Space Program Jool Landing Youtube. Building a High Altitude Jet | Stream pt. 2/3 (KSP 1.11.2) You do get certain inertial and lever-arm effects, but those aren't really relevant to 'do I have enough lift to stay up'. Since turbos are almost always enough to get you off the ground and up to altitude, I usually just do straight turbojets (with some RAPIERs for SSTO spaceplanes); the minute amount of fuel saved during the ascent isn't worth lugging those superfluous engines around at the hypersonic regime. Cookie Notice Thanks for the help! - Inside the atmosphere works the same way, except you need to be on an suborbital trajectory. You also need to be going very fast to generate adequate lift at high altitudes and unlike the real U-2, you don't need to fear about overspeeding and destroying the plane. Do plugins for Kerbal Space Program work on unix? AoA and G-force moderation. They always seem to lose power at about 15km, but I'm wondering if there's something I can do to fix that. Let me. A full suite of flaps on the trailing edges of the main wings give it exceptional low-speed lift, and small hydroplane steps mounted on each side of the fuselage bottom help lift it out of the water (lowering water drag) during takeoff runs. Just sounds like the engines can't get enough air, in KSP high speed also generates air intake so I'm guessing what is happening is that you have the initial speed to get to altitude but the lack of air at altitude is starving the engine resulting in lower speed which further reduces air intake and it cascades until either the engine shuts down or you return to denser atmosphere at a lower altitude. This thread is quite old. Learn more about Stack Overflow the company, and our products. Thanks for asking this, I've been struggling with the same problem in career mode. I have enough patience to do the slow flying, but is it horribly inefficient? Delta wings are able to work better since the lack of lift per square area is compensated by having larger area to provide lift. To avoid running out of fuel altogether, I have a second plane with small tanks (no oxidizer) attached directly to the jet engines, and the rockets attached behind the fuselage, which is entirely oxidized tanks. The U-2 is probably the highest altitude aircraft still flying. If released at a speed of 700 or more m/s and an altitude of 20 or more km, the satellite will achieve orbit with its second stage mostly full, leaving it with approximately 1600 m/s of delta-V -- enough to achieve lunar or interplanetary orbits and, on small bodies, landings. with a thrust vectoring range of only 3 degrees. - "In Space High" means your craft is inside the given Sphere of Influence and above the "Space Border" altitude listed in the Celestial Body Multiplier Matrix. That's sub-optimal, because having the fuselage pitched like that means it'll have more drag than it otherwise would have. Third, which I haven't given a good try, would be a carefully-timed deorbit maneuver so you come down through your desired location as you fall from space. All trademarks are property of their respective owners in the US and other countries. The stratospheric region, where temperature rises as altitude increases, spans the region between the altitudes of 10 km and 22 km. I would like to know which altitude I have to maintain for my experiments. 2022 Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc. J-404 "Panther" Afterburning Turbofan - Kerbal Space Program As high and fast as you can go without engine flameout: preferably ~2000 m/s at 25-30 km (and yes, that's almost orbital velocity).
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